Has The LSx Become The Toyota Camry Of Engine Swaps?

"PardonMyFlemish16" (TheCoolKid) 07/31/2016 at 11:39 • Filed to: None

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Well, just as sure as the sun rose today, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in their typically excellent and meticulous fashion, bestowing it with a tire immolating 525 hp.

However instead of the usual excitement I get from such news, my first response to that was a resounding “meh”, followed by a “this again?”

Don’t get me wrong- the LSx engine is, in many ways, the automotive greatest thing since sliced bread. It delivers 100% on 3 A-attributes- abundance, affordability, and Amrrrrcnness. But at this point, to me, an LSx swap is kind of like loading up Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo and jumping into a tournament with Akuma. Yes, it’s fun to dominate mercilessly and take advantage of his superhuman attributes, but come on. Eventually you gotta play with some different characters.

Plus in this chassis in particular, which Mazda worked so hard to achieve a good balance and low weight in, the added 200lbs on the nose and ~350HP at the crank just seems like a real missing of the point of the car.

So I had a couple of ideas for alternative swaps I’d like to see get more popular.

Honda K-series

Pros- abundant and affordable... probably moreso than the LSx. Definitely keeps in line with the original character of the car as well, and provides several avenues to go if you are cool with 200-300HP rather than 500+. The aftermarket for these is probably as strong, if not stronger, than that of the LSx. If you want a real junkyard build, you can probably spend about $2000 on an Accord motor and parts and come out of the other side with an 8,000 RPM 300 crank HP beast.

Cons- possible hood height clearance issues, and matching the engine to the transmission

Nissan VQ

Pros- again- abundant and affordable. FWD and RWD versions have different mounts, but I think they have the same bellhousing pattern and since you will need custom mounts that’s kind of irrelevant. Most internals and peripherals are interchangeable as well.

As for the engine itself, well, I kind of see it as the Japanese LSx. Light, somewhat compact, cheap, makes good power, pretty strong aftermarket. I am biased towards engines with cylinder counts in multiples of 3s, so in my opinion a VQ with EL/long tube headers sounds way better than any LSx.

Cons- IMO the stock VQ RWD transmission is less than great subjectively. Crazy long clutch throw, heavy and slow shift action. Would not jive with the ND’s original MO. Engine itself is still better to that end than the LSx IMO though.

Original ND Engine

Pros- People are getting close to 200whp out of these things with bolt ons and a tune. In a 2300lb car, that’s a P/W ratio in the range of something like an old Cayman S or Elise. Hardly slow. Of course, can’t beat OEM compatibility.

Cons- no internet or dyno shot props; SKYACTIV 2.0 sounds agricultural unless you are absolutely caning it.

So those are my ideas on some alternate paths for getting more power into these chassis. I think we can be a little more creative than the LSx swap, even if such swaps are done to the excellent standards set by the Flying Miata team.

S65 > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 11:48

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Has The LSx Become The Toyota Camry Of Engine Swaps?

Yes

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 11:52

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I’m not sure about the statement that it’s the Camry of swaps. There’s just too much flexibility in the LS swap to call it that. Camrys mostly suck because they’re cookie cutter. Do you want beige, silver or baby blue? Because that’s more or less the biggest decision you make when purchasing one. If they offered AWD, manual, etc etc then they wouldn’t be so boring.

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 11:53

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Toyota’s 2GR is a good one, too. Light weight for its power output, basically a VQ done right. And Toyota is 1000x better than Nissan! Comes in FWD and RWD, and also mid-engine (Lotus).

The best car company also has a V8, too :)

The LSx probably has the biggest aftermarket of any engine ever, just like its predecessors. You can build one from scratch without using any original GM/Chevy parts. They call it the small block because it really is small! It might not even weigh that much more than the 4-cylinder you’re replacing it with. And of course, the original small block basically created the whole aftermarket community and engine swaps, and the LS continues that fine tradition.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 11:55

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I feel like other than the V8 power, the other reason LS is so popular is because compared to its displacement and cylinder count, its a very compact motor thanks to the OHV design. It fits where OHC engines won’t.

daender > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 11:57

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It feels like it, but when you hear and see one in person, then it makes sense. After seeing both a RX-8, FC RX-7, and a NC1 with LS-swaps, I want one as well. Good handling-chassis combined with reliable and easy V8 power and torque? I seriously want to pair up a LS with a FC convertible for the ultimate down-top cruiser.

PardonMyFlemish16 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 07/31/2016 at 12:13

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If Camrys suck because they are cookie cutter, how doesn’t the LSx swap suck too? It’s as cookie cutter as engine swaps come.

Plus within its realm of expertise/function the Camry is just as versatile as the LSx. Camry’s wheelhouse = basic transportation. LSx = being a performance engine. Want a Camry with some ground clearance and AWD? Get a RAV4 (yes I know it’s really a Corolla but the avg person doesn’t- and it has the same engine and interior space). Want a Camry with some luxury? Get an ES. Want a Camry with some more legroom? Get an Avalon. Etc. Nobody buys a Camry because it’s fun to drive just like nobody swaps an LSx in to get better gas mileage.

lone_liberal > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 12:23

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I’ll never criticize someone who is building their own car in their garage for choosing an LS. It simplifies the build and solves a lot of problems. Now a pro builder with a big budget car is a different story. They should be able to do something more interesting.

GhostZ > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 12:31

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The Toyota Camry isn’t twice as good and half as expensive of all of its competition.

Yeah, VQ engine swap SOUNDS nice on paper, but for most cars you’re looking at a $20,000 swap (with custom mounts and no community documentation) for 300 HP vs a $5000 swap (with tons of videos, tutorials, and bolt in kits) for 500 HP with a huge aftermarket. Both probably weigh the same too, the VQ is a hefty block.

The stark reality of it is that for all the ‘meh’ factor, most people who are doing these swaps want a working car that meets their needs at a reasonable price, internet commenters be damned.

Sweet Trav > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 12:34

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All of those engines are inferior to the LS motor in terms of aftermarket support and power to weight. While I agree that the LS motor is probably overkill for this application there are few engines as easily swappable with such compactness and reliability as the LSX motor.

Also anything with 525 hp is not analogous to a Camry

DipodomysDeserti > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 12:36

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There's like six different types of LS series engines with the current generation. That's why they aren't cookie cutter. They're ubiquitous, but that doesn't always equal cookie cutter. I get what you're saying about it being played out though.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 12:56

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I’m pretty sure the K-series and VQ are at least as compact as the LSx. And with the added weight & overkill power/torque in stock LS1 form, seems to me that the LSx is an inferior swap for this particular application.

Sweet Trav > S65 07/31/2016 at 12:57

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And every one of those cars is better for the LS swap.

TheVancen- In Pursuit of a Greater Payday and Car Parts > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:04

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FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE HAS SEEN THE LIGHT. Now I can finally stop beating this dead horse.

PardonMyFlemish16 > GhostZ 07/31/2016 at 13:06

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Dude stop with these blatant lies. You will be $10K+ into an LSx Miata before you even buy the engine/transmission:

https://www.flyinmiata.com/V8/costsNC.php

Even if you fab up all the parts yourself, you’re not gonna build a custom driveshaft, radiator, full exhaust and all the other shit for $1000 (an LS1 + T56 is ~$4K). Liking the LSx swap doesn’t mean you have to lie for it.

Sweet Trav > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:12

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The VQ is taller and wider. The K series is taller than an LS with a ‘car’ intake manifold. Also both are within 75lbs of an LS motor fully dressed. It’s damn near impossible to get the numbers out a VQ or K20 that you can get out of an LS. Any engine swap is going to throw off the balance of the Miata. If you're going to upset the balance of a brand new car, why not do it with 525 hp? I'd say that a supercharged stock Miata motor is probably the best of all worlds here. A car this light doesn't need 525 hp, but given how close the weights are for all of your proposed swaps, is it worth it for a few extra hp?

PardonMyFlemish16 > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 13:17

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I guess the dispute comes in whether or not one thinks a car can have too much power. For me, yes, saving lbs is worth sacrificing power for. HP is only good in one direction; weight is good in all directions. If I want a POS straight line monster I can just get an old Foxbody and do a junkyard turbo kit on a 351. Why spend $50K to build something that will drive like a $10K Rustang build?

MultiplaOrgasms > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:19

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There is nothing inherently wrong with it, so yes it is the Camry of engine swaps, at least in north america, but I’m more interested how that situation is in other parts of the world where Smallblock V8s are nowhere near as abundant due to taxes on engine displacement and the likes. I haven’t looked much into it just yet, but from what I can tell the most popular swap options here in Europe seem to be the VAG 1.8T and GM C20XE based engines. The Rover K-series swap culture is mostly confined to the UK and PSA and Renault engines are almost always found in intra-brand swaps.

Sweet Trav > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:24

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You apparently don't know what a Fox Body mustang is capable of. With an aluminum 5.0 swap they can make over 450 hp and weight in at about 2900lbs. One of the guys in my Autox region has one with a 3v 4.6l and regularly beats Vettes, miatas and S2000s

PardonMyFlemish16 > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 13:32

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I know they can do great things, but I’m sure your Auto-X buddy did extensive suspension/chassis mods. An engine swap doesn’t upgrade the brakes/suspension/tires, so swap alone it’s guaranteed this thing would be a mess. I don’t think there’s ever been a 525HP car send out of the factory with 11" rotors and single caliper brakes for example.

Opposite Locksmith > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:46

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Fuck this don't be so butt frustrated I'd go lsx

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 13:49

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Don’t forget about the added weight of the T56 if that the route you go with.

GhostZ > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:50

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Did I say that a miata LS swap only cost $5000? I thought this was about engine swaps in general, not miata-specific ones. You can certainly swap an LS motor into many vehicles for under $5000, but yeah, a Miata is not one of them.

My point was that most other engine swaps are going to be 2-4x more expensive for the power, or even for less power, and take longer with less support. The only reason not to use an LS, if you’re going to swap at all, is to be alternative for alternative’s sake.

AfromanGTO > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 13:53

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The LSX engines for what they power they make, are fairly light and compact. Plus they are cheap. Now they VQ engine swaps suffer the same thing that Coyote swaps have, and that is the additional width and weight in the heads. It is very interesting to compare a LS engine to the Mazdaspeed Miata’s turbo engine size wise.

Plus the LS does fit inside the Miata’s engine bay, and it looks like it has more room than a 4th gen Firebird/Camaro.

AfromanGTO > GhostZ 07/31/2016 at 13:55

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Wait a second GhostZ? The same GhostZ who swapped a LS GTO motor and trans into his 350Z? And then turboed it later? If it is you hey man!

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 07/31/2016 at 13:58

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True, but that’s weight to the middle of the car, doesn’t affect balance as much. You’d probably gain trans weight with the VQ or any engine swap for that matter

GhostZ > AfromanGTO 07/31/2016 at 14:01

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Nope! Totally different guy. Didn’t know there was another.

LOREM IPSUM > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 14:04

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It makes me wonder a bit. How many lsx engines have been produced vs how many lsx powered vehicles produced. I basically wonder how many lsx crate engines have gone out the door, all in.

Substantial, I’m betting. GM does make a great engine when they really put their mind to it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 14:05

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The LS comes in longitudinal and transverse flavors, made to hook up to manual or automatic, and range in size from 4.8 up to 7 liters. They also have many variations within and a monsterous aftermarket allowing you to set the car up or build it however you want to.

It’s Sounds like to me you don’t really understand the market or just assume all LS swaps are the same. If you looked a little more into it, you’d see just how individualized these swaps can be, and that it’s not played out because they’re not all the same.

And as a matter of fact, there’s a LOT of times where an LS swap can net better mileage. Particularly in cases of it replacing a rotary or something else high strung and pushing to Its capacity for power. The LS is an extremely efficient powerplant for the power levels it’s capable of.

C62030 > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 14:08

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I love the swap, borked weight distribution and all, just because it’s the real-life equivalent of what I sink entire weekends into doing on Forza.

AfromanGTO > GhostZ 07/31/2016 at 14:09

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Sorry about that. This was his car.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 14:21

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Actually LS1/T56 is heavier than iron 302/T5 by at least 50 lbs. Considering the 302 in iron should be a good bit heavier than the LS1, the T56 is quite heavy.

moejr > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 15:00

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So your whole argument here is the classic internet “people shouldn’t like things I don’t like”. If you think those are better swaps then feel free to do them. There are plenty of people who put all kinds of engines in Miatas. You can’t beat a LSx for price/hp and compactness though. And if you think it screws up the “balance” of the car by putting a v8 in a miata, you should really watch some of the track day videos.

moejr > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 15:01

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My neighbor has a ls1 he got for $500 so no its not $4000 for engine and trans. You just have to look around.

PardonMyFlemish16 > moejr 07/31/2016 at 15:09

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My parents let me live in their house for free for 18 years. That doesn’t mean the going rent for a bedroom in NYC is $0.

PardonMyFlemish16 > moejr 07/31/2016 at 15:10

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People are free to like what they want. I just think it would be cool if people tried some other swaps more often. And people take all kinds of vehicles to the Ring. Bringing a car to the track doesn’t mean it’s well balanced.

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 07/31/2016 at 15:22

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But a T5 will grenade if making as much power/tq as an LS1, ask me how I know

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Sweet Trav 07/31/2016 at 15:24

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True, but aren’t they dirt cheap?

Sweet Trav > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 07/31/2016 at 16:05

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Not any more. Circa 1992 they were

moejr > PardonMyFlemish16 07/31/2016 at 23:36

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I didn’t say the “Ring” I said watch some track day videos. If you think its unbalanced it would help if you watched some people show you that its not. Stop being so proud of your ignorance. Just do some research before you talk shit about something.

bhtooefr > PardonMyFlemish16 08/02/2016 at 22:22

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Silly idea I just had for a Miata swap, speaking of Toyota Camrys...

2GR-FKS. (OK, OK, so the Camry has the 2GR-FE, but the 2GR-FKS should be better, as it’s available in higher-revving tunes.)

TA4K > PardonMyFlemish16 08/02/2016 at 22:24

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I wouldn’t say the VQ is the LS of Japan, but the Toyota/Lexus quad cam 4L V8. Over here we have hot rods with a twin turbo variant, track built kit cars running them, hillclimb cars etc.

LongbowMkII > PardonMyFlemish16 08/02/2016 at 22:29

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There is not a damn thing about the VQ that is compact.

Amoore100 > PardonMyFlemish16 08/02/2016 at 23:22

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I agree. Don’t listen to the naysayers, logic never made a cool car anyway. An engine swap isn’t supposed to be logical and if I’m going to put that much time and money into that then I’m going to do something different that might not yield huge amounts of power, but there’s more to life than power. Keeping it in the family is a good start IMO, like the Amazon wagon with the turbo Volvo Whiteblock I6. Why have a pushrod V8 when you could have a Porsche designed, Swedish built masterpiece?

BrendanB > moejr 08/02/2016 at 23:54

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You can find LSx engines all day from $400-5000+ if it’s an LS7. The expensive part is the T56, which can range from $2000, to $3000+ for a mildly built one.

BrendanB > GhostZ 08/02/2016 at 23:57

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The VQ is likely heavier. The LSx series have been (generally) aluminum block based, and the engine is actually very small dimension wise. Most of the time when swaps are completed, it betters the weight distribution, or only very slightly throws it off if the car is already perfectly distributed.

samssun > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 00:47

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The LSx is the ideal engine for pretty much any car it can fit in, because it has so much output (flat torque and peak power) from such a small/light package. However, when it comes to sensible alternatives, I think a 2300 pound Miata is the ONE car where a rotary could make sense. “Preserving the spirit of the car” and whatnot.

6Cylinder > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 01:22

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Someone needs to do an FA20DIT swap in a Miata. Low center of gravity, nearly the same weight distribution as stock and 400whp with E85 and full bolt ons (stock turbo).

Would it be easy? Fuck no.

Would it be savage in the miata chassis? Fuck yes.

6Cylinder > S65 08/03/2016 at 01:27

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3rd car isn’t an LS...

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 08:40

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Dat dry-sump honda tho

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 09:08

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Dude the k-Miata swaps that I saw at MATG were amazing. Those things are bad ass as hell. There were more than one of them! Plus there was a Ford motor swap and a Camaro V6. Also an Ecotec GM motor!!! But either way, all crazy motor swaps are amazing. The LS swap in an ND by FM is just the top of the line shit. Sure maybe reliable is boring, but then the whole essence of a Miata must be boring! I think the ubiquity of the LS motor fits the character of the Miata so well. Still very much lightweight and the best part is definitely the ease of use. The fact that it isn’t going to face overheating issues nor will it ruin the handling. LSx and Miata go together like peanut butter and banana. Shit is just good!

OneTyreFyer > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 09:46

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I agree that the LSx Swap is standard fare. “oh, another?”. But, when it comes time for me to build some performance into one of my projects, its going to be an LS that goes in there. Once its time to put my money where my mouth is then the tune changes. I wouldn’t build a cruiser with an LS cause they don’t have to be That fast. Have you had to make that decision and chose against the LS?

CobraJoe > Sweet Trav 08/03/2016 at 10:55

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If all you want is the best power to weight for the easiest/cheapest setup, then yes, an LS engine is perfect.

However, is that exactly what you want for your build?

CobraJoe > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 10:58

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How about an LS based V4 swap? I think that’d be fun.

http://jalopnik.com/5703588/kmv4-a…

Sure, you wouldn’t gain any power in NA form, but the weight would be lower, further back, and it would be really cool to chop down a roots blower to stick on top.

N31L > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 11:09

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As the LSx swap is the go-to engine swaps for all sorts of enthusiasts, why can’t GM make a vehicle featuring the motor that people really want to buy in greater numbers?

Every car (besides streetrod restomods) I have seen are into smaller chassis than the corvette. Are modern safety requirements too stringent to build an LSx miata or FD RX-7 inspired car?

Or is it simply the desire to be different and specifically not a corvette owner?

BigBlock440 > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 11:19

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The junkyard near me sells engines for $175, any and all. Transmissions, $100, any one they’ve got. If the combo you’re looking for was relatively common (which the LS is, one of the reasons it’s popular), you’re in $300. Granted, that means you could get your other engines for the same price, but you’re still down on power and they’re not as common. A quick google of “ls engine” and the 5 engines in the “shop for” at the top are $2,029, $1,467, $1,089, $31,956, and $750, so $500 certainly within range.

gawdzillla > BigBlock440 08/03/2016 at 11:55

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dang thats cheap, location ?

BigBlock440 > gawdzillla 08/03/2016 at 12:21

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http://www.wegotused.com/

I don’t think it’s that unreasonable, they’re used parts after all. Any junkyard that charges almost as much as new probably won’t be in business for too long.

GeneralSnus > Sweet Trav 08/03/2016 at 13:36

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I dont think you understand. Why are you just assuming youd build the LS to 525hp? If you wanted it to be as cheap as say, a VQ swap, it would just be a junkyard LS1 making like 320hp. The VQ would be making maybe 270hp and would be 75lb lighter and the same price. The LS still comes out on top but if you wanted cheap you wouldnt be building a 525hp LS, it would just be a junkyard LS1

Sweet Trav > GeneralSnus 08/03/2016 at 13:55

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You’re only looking at the crate motor, not the EMS that is required to run them. You can run a 525hp off of a $350 Minisquirt and free software, Try controlling a VQ with VVT and SFI with something like that. You’re going to need a standalone EMS system like MS3 or to modify the factory EMS system which will require an $800 tuner license, or paying for someone else to do it.

You can find iron 5.3's as cheap as $300 and with a $107 LS9 cam they make 420 HP . An aluminum 5.3 will run you about $700. The 6.0's and 6.2l’s are bit more. An LS3 weights in at 444lbs fully dressed with cast iron manifolds and all accessories. a VQ35 long block with intake weighs in at 316lbs, I cant find a number readily available for a fully dressed engine, but i was being generous with the 75lb weight difference, methinks in the real world it is probably less than that.

Not to mention, the aftermarket for LS support is just stupid. the VQ engine doesn’t have a 1/4 of the support that the LS does.

luvMeSome142 & some Lincoln! > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 14:07

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Wow, there is some heated debate going on in this thread!

But, let me set you straight. LSx swap stories are the Toyota Camrys of the automotive internet.

LSx swaps are cool (most of the time).

LongbowMkII > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 15:11

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You know there’s no rule that you have to have a 500+hp. An LS makes a happy 350 and you don't need all the extra weight of beefy support systems.

WarShrike > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 16:16

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I remember when people bitched about the 2JZ being too common a swap.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > PardonMyFlemish16 08/03/2016 at 20:24

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I like the idea of a VQ out of a wrecked 370Z. 330hp of V6 goodness.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > PardonMyFlemish16 08/05/2016 at 11:33

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I’ll throw a dark horse out here - how about GM V6's. They never get any love, which is unfortunate because they have a lot of unrealized potential. Oh, and I don’t mean the new 3.6L DOHC unit found in the Camaro RS, etc. I mean the old 90 degree pushrod V6 (3800 & 4.3L) and the unloved 60 degree V6's (2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L, 3500, and 3900).

The one thing all these engines have in common is they are extremely plentiful and are dirt cheap. I’m talking a couple hundred bucks max. They are also quite small. The 4.3 and 3800 90 degree engines are the same width and height as a SBC and shorter in overall length, so if an LSx fits, these definitely will. The 60 degree engines have the added benefit of being even narrower. In fact they are much smaller than DOHC engines like the Nissan VQ.

The 4.3L unit is basically a first gen 350 SBC with 2 cylinders lopped off. They were dogs in stock applications, most making only 160-190HP (I think there was a 210HP version), but they make gobs of torque and aside from cylinder heads & intake manifolds they can use any parts a standard SBC uses. They also used to use them in some of the NASCAR regional series like ARCA so there’s a good knowledge base for tuning and making power with these engines.

The 3800 is loosely based on the old Buick Grand Nationals motor, and it’s a stout, robust platform. It was used in both FWD and RWD applications. It also came in the Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and later other cars with a factory supercharger. These things are boost ready and can handle tons of punishment. If you look at companies like ZZP and others, there are 500+HP engines out there with stock guts.

The 60 degree engines are much less loved and more limited but again, there’s some hidden potential. The early ones, the 2.8L-3.4L frankly kind of suck, but since they came in cars like the Fiero there’s a decent aftermarket with performance options for them. The 3500 and 3900 are newer options based on that older architecture, but with much better heads, and advanced features like VVT and variable intakes. A 3900 with custom headers (which you’re probably going to have to fab anyways) and some tuning can make almost 280+HP and almost 300 ft-lbs. The downside to the 3500/3900 is with all the wizardry (VVT, variable intake, etc.) you’re pretty much stuck running the factory ECU.

One last thing is that GM builds cars like legos. If you know enough, almost everything is compatible with everything else. For example, the 4.3 V6 uses the V8 bellhousing which is uses on all GM V8s. The 3800 and 60 degree engines use the “FWD/Metric” bellhousing. Contrary to the name those engines were used in RWD applications such as the Camaro and S10, and had a variety of transmissions including the T5 and various Aisin and NV gearboxes. Additionally GM uses only handful of ECU’s across their engine lineup and they have a reputation for being robust and easy to tune.

chaozbandit > PardonMyFlemish16 08/05/2016 at 16:27

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Just for future reference, Sasha’s (onpointdyno) 350Z is a highly worked over NA VQ with a quaife 69G sequential.

Stef Schrader > PardonMyFlemish16 08/05/2016 at 18:47

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Yes.

Absolutely.

And the Miata is the Camry of the race track.

Together, the two shall skip through the jolly gravel trap of Basic Track Bro Heaven.

(Flyin’ Miata does do a really nice job with these, though.)

...

(P.S.: You’re pretty good at this writing thing, so I’ll just leave this here .)

Stef Schrader > Sweet Trav 08/05/2016 at 19:01

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Nope.

DangerMouse949 > PardonMyFlemish16 08/05/2016 at 19:05

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What about a 2.5L SkyActiv swap?

Blocks are identical, everything mounts perfectly, and with the new turbo 2.5L CX-9 you have potential.

Stef Schrader > lone_liberal 08/05/2016 at 19:15

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Pretty much. I enjoy seeing the Miata getting launched off cliffs, torn apart by heavy machinery, given the People’s Curse, ‘sploded with rocket launchers, etc., etc. because I’m just tired of seeing the dumb things—but a the end of the day, it’s cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, easy to source parts for, and I can’t blame anyone who gets one. Same goes with the LS. You do you, man. I promise not to run over it with a tank ‘cause you never mess with another person’s car.

But I will say that I’m a whole lot more interested and intrigued by some nutjob who shoves some obscure Peugeot engine into the trunk of ??? does it even matter at that point? Because WEIRD PEUGEOT SWAP . Or like, someone with a 914 shell that puts in some stupid-small engine from a tractor or something, because why not? Car-ternet has jaded me in the worst way.

lone_liberal > Stef Schrader 08/05/2016 at 19:40

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I mostly agree but, it’s more interesting for those of us looking at it. That’s why I think a pro builder building a show car whose main purpose is to be looked at should go the extra mile and do an interesting engine. They have the time, money, and ability. In addition if somebody wants to put a diesel Peugeot engine in their Bugeye Sprite just for the hell of it that’s great and interesting for everybody to look at and talk about and gives them the satisfaction of doing something different. Would it be the best engine choice for driving enjoyment? Probably not. On the other hand someone building their own car to drive who puts in an LS because it gives the most bang for the buck and makes the car drive like they want shouldn’t get attitude from those who will never own or drive the car.

Bozi Tatarevic > PardonMyFlemish16 08/05/2016 at 19:42

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haha, I’m guessing this is a trolling post

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/05/2016 at 20:35

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Yes, those K-Miata swaps were impressive. “Vtec Club”

Sweet Trav > Stef Schrader 08/06/2016 at 11:19

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You’re wrong.

I hoon, therefore I am > PardonMyFlemish16 08/06/2016 at 19:03

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Late to the game, but it has already been established that the LS is the Miata of power plants (aka the answer to everything).

Poor troll job.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > PardonMyFlemish16 09/07/2016 at 08:19

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Point of order: Of the options you present (including the LS) there is one factor that heavily tilts in favor of the LS.

Chevy will sell it to you direct as a crate engine. And they will sell you an ECU and sensor kit should you desire.

You can source any of these engines from junkyards or rebuilders that specialize in them, but you can’t go to Nissan and have them crate a new VQ35 right off the line and sell it to you, without ordering it through a dealer parts desk (where it is assumed that you have an existing ECU and other parts to dress it).

If you want a more powerful I4, Ford Racing will sell you the 2.0L EcoBoost out of a Focus ST as a crate engine. Along with the ECU and required sensors as a kit.

Brian Deyo > PardonMyFlemish16 09/08/2016 at 09:52

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There seems to be a lot of confusion between an “LS” motor and a true LS1, LS3, LS6 corvette motor. Big difference in cost between the millions of 5.3 iron block truck engines that were sold in every fleet van in the world, vs. a high performance already built LS from a vette.

Colby > PardonMyFlemish16 09/19/2016 at 14:07

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VQ better than LSX? Wtf did you smoke before you wrote this? I get the LS swaps can get a little boring now because they’re so common, but for good reason. More research and development went into the LS series of engines than any other I can think of. Not to mention it was based off a motor that had already been proven to be good for over 40 years and was already dominating nearly every form of racing. And as far as ANY Japanese engine sounding as good as an LSX, no way... atleast not in my opinion. I think V8s and LSX V8s in particular make almost everything else sound wimpy. They just sound mean as hell, no matter how “exotic” your other 4 and 6 cylinder engines may sound they still don’t convey the raw sound of power that the LSX series does. I do like the Coyote V8 sound and whatever the hell is in the Jaguar F Type... that thing sounds nasty. But sometimes the reason something is so popular is because it works well. And by the way... LSX parts are usually just as cheap as Honda parts and have a much larger aftermarket, contrary to your statement. Adíos.

Frank Grimes > PardonMyFlemish16 10/09/2016 at 03:07

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the most exciting swap is the ecotec. well I should add the most exciting swap for poor people.

You should try pricing out what a K series swap costs. It is not cheap.

The ecotec is a reliable 200hp and a flat torque curve. the motors are plentiful cheap and robust. here is a kit that bolts it in using the stock miata transmission. There are headers that fit and little in the way of fabrication that needs to be done.

http://www.ecotecmiata.ca/product-page/80924e85-be85-b0c0-e3b3-9f2198ce2514

ModManDan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 03/09/2018 at 12:01

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Shhh don’t use logic when speaking to the writer of this article. They are writing about a subject matter that they are clueless about and will just retort with more diarrhea.